In their lively conversation at DLD Munich 2025, German Minister Robert Habeck and American economist Andrew McAfee discuss Europe’s economic challenges, technological lag, and the need for reform, with Habeck offering candid insights into Germany’s position in the global economy.
Germany’s energy-intensive industries make the country dependent on imports, Habeck notes – a critical weakness when Russia invaded Ukraine. “Not only half of our gas supply was coming from Russia, but also half our coal and one third of our oil supply.”
Germany’s economy also relies heavily on exports, making the country more vulnerable to potential trade wars. “If markets are closing, if tariffs are raised”, Habeck admits, “then the German economy is vulnerable more than others.” Globalization, he adds, has reached a “tipping point” with countries increasingly protecting their markets.
McAfee pushes Habeck to explain why Germany isn’t a larger player “on the global stage of the digital era”, despite its well-educated population and strong universities. “I would say hubris is the problem”, Habeck admits.
Past success has made Germany and Europe complacent, he argues. “We think the normal development will always, in the end, come to our benefit. So we became lazy in a way.”
Asked if the EU has overregulated the tech sector, Habeck responds: “Yes, yes, it has.” The goals of regulation, such as preventing child labor and deforestation, are laudable, he makes clear. “This is something we should not question. This belongs to our value system. And I’m the biggest defender of our value system.”
But the enforcement of many rules is lacking or has become too burdensome, Habeck acknowledges. “We don’t need, from my point of view, a reporting about responsibility, but stick to the responsibility of our society goals and political valuese”, Habeck emphasizes. “And there we took the wrong path, in a way.”
The conversation also touches on Germany’s traditional industries and their ability to innovate. “Is Germany willing to let its iconic companies fail if they can’t keep up?”, Andrew McAfee asks. “No, I don’t think so”, Habeck replies. “I’d like to give them the chance to adapt to the new reality”, he says, advocating for the fastest possible pace of change.
Watch the video for more insights from this energetic, entertaining conversation, which also addresses the need for Germany and Europe to embrace AI and frontier technologies like and quantum computing to remain competitive on the global stage.
